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Author Topic: Hard Starting When Hot - Fuel Pressure?  (Read 400 times)
fifthorda
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot - Fuel Pressure?
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2008, 12:45:50 AM »

Nope, nothing on the other side of the fuel rail.... Guess its not the 95 then... but the last owner swapped the engine for a newer one, maybe he changed for a later model(wheres the serial number so I could check?)
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KevinT
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot - Fuel Pressure?
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2008, 03:02:27 AM »

For the fuel return line, I do have a 95. I will check out the filter, its near the washer fluid right? Nykon, your idea about the pressure pushing the sediment into the filter is very possible. And about the return line, where is found?

The filter's under the washer bottle on the '95 four cylinder.  (Just had mine replaced and the dealer service manual didn't show where it actually was, fortunately it gave the hint that battery removal was a required pre-removal operation.)  You have to remove the battery, battery support and brake fluid reservoir (which can be bent up out of the way without disconnecting the hoses or spilling anything) to remove the washer bottle.

The '95 four cylinder does have a return hose, it's listed in the fuel tank removal steps, mfi system schematic and fuel rail removal steps/diagram.  Specifically, it's on one end of the end of the rail above the high pressure hose; the regulator and vacuum line are on the opposite end of the rail.

I've never done any fuel system work (it was a mechanic friend who did my fuel filter), but there is a 'Fuel Pressure Too High' symptom listed in the service manual, probable causes and remedies listed are:
- Binding valve in fuel pressure regulator, replace fuel pressure regulator
- Clogged fuel return hose or pipe, clean or replace hose or pipe
Of course, those assume that you've actually connected to the service port and measured the pressure, which by the way should be between 324-343 kPa if you're able to do so.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: May 27, 2008, 03:37:16 AM by Kevin Tessner » Logged

'95 Avenger I4 MTX.  337,000+ km's and counting...
fifthorda
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot - Fuel Pressure?
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2008, 02:13:31 AM »

Update :

I changed the fuel filter. I was hoping it would solve my problem, but no. When I changed it, I noticed that a metal hose on the firewall next to the fuel filter. It goes towards the left. The last owner blocked it off, so I think that may be the return line, because I think he swapped the 95 engine for a 96. If my fuel system is a 95 and the engine a 96, could I still need a return line? If so I guess I could try to find a 95 fuel rail... Also, is there a pressure regulator on the 96, if so where is it, if not, where is it on the 95? I guess I could check that. I did a test where I started the car when it is cold, and I shut it off right away. I pressed on the release valve, and the fuel spurted out maybe only an inch(what I think is probably normal) I tried the same thing when the engine was hot and didnt want to start, and it came shooting out several feet, so it is definitly a pressure problem. If I take the injectors off, is there anyway to tell if they are clogged? My very last resort will be to hook a switch on the fuel pump and switch the pump off and let the engine die every time I want to shut it off to make sure there is not too much pressure...
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fifthorda
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot - Fuel Pressure?
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2008, 10:50:13 PM »

Anyone? Im still looking for answers, its a real bitch having to release the pressure to start the car, and the lovely smell of gasoline on the hands Cheesy Roll Eyes
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KevinT
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot - Fuel Pressure?
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2008, 06:28:19 PM »

I don't have any data on the 96 and beyond (mine's a 95 so I got the 95 dealer service manuals) but I'm sure it'll still have a fuel pressure regulator, probably just a different type that doesn't require a return line.  Any automotive stores near you that rent out specialty tools?  Maybe it's time to hook a pressure gauge up to that port to see what you're actually dealing with...
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fifthorda
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot - Fuel Pressure?
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2008, 04:52:29 AM »

Ok. I will test the pressure, and get some real numbers on here once and for all.
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fifthorda
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot - Fuel Pressure?
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2008, 04:43:38 AM »

I was not able to get my hands on a pressure gauge, yet, but I did install a switch to turn the pump off, so if it doesnt want to start I switch it off, crank a few times, then flick the switch on and it works. This convinces me even more that it is a fuel related problem. Oh and the switch is a carbon fiber aircraft safety covered toggle switch (thats quite a long name, but its what it says on the box Tongue Roll Eyes), blends right in with my carbon fiber dash kit Cool I will post pics as soon as I can get my hands on my camera... and a pic of the start button.
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ambrose
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot - Fuel Pressure?
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2008, 09:06:56 PM »

I know this sounds odd!
My 95 last winter had somewhat of the same problem hard start when cold then it when it did start i woud let it run for a while and then i would turn it off try to start it would crank and crank but would not fire. so i started messing around with sensors and plugs make sure all the connections were good. while doing this i broke my water temp sensor prong off. i was mad as well u know . i decide to see if it would start anyway and it started right up. i got to thinking about it and it started to make since to me all the sensors in the motor are related to either fuel delivery or spark delivery. my assumtion was the sensor was giving a faulty reading to the ecm and the ecm turned the fuel off i drove the vehical for months after that with no starting issues. so what i am saying is unplug you're temp sensor and try to start it after it has warmed up. if everything works then replace the temp sensor. it may work for you if cars over heats the ecm will shut the car off.
maybe the sensor is sending a signal thats telling the ecm car is running to hot and needs to cool off
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fifthorda
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot - Fuel Pressure?
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2008, 05:49:58 AM »

Did it cause the fuel pressure to be too high? Cause thats whats wrong with mine. As soon as I relieve the pressure, it starts right up. Sort of like if the injectors had too much fuel and werent able to click..
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ambrose
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot - Fuel Pressure?
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2008, 01:45:48 PM »

i dont know if the fuel pressure was high or not it didn't check it. but it might be worth a shot to unplug it and try
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fifthorda
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot - Fuel Pressure?
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2008, 05:31:26 PM »

thanks, its now on my to do list, after mowing the lawn before I need to call the hay baller, and right after doing the laundry so I am not forced to wear flashy yellow crocs and walk around totally naked anymore:Smiley
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KevinT
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Re: Hard Starting When Hot - Fuel Pressure?
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2008, 04:25:43 AM »

so I am not forced to wear flashy yellow crocs and walk around totally naked anymore:Smiley

Man I hate when that happens!
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