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Author Topic: 96 Avenger 2.5 V6.....won't turn over  (Read 391 times)
mike
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96 Avenger 2.5 V6.....won't turn over
« on: February 23, 2008, 10:28:07 PM »

 Huh Huh ???My 96 began to have electrical problems like the blinkers not working properly, the cruise control not working, etc. Then one day the car decided to die, after much diagnosis, we got the car to finally crank by replacing the Starter.  The car really wanted to start but it wouldn't turn over.  At this point we smelled gas and pulled the plugs out and they were soaked in gasoline.  We replaced the plugs and tested the wires.  The car has spark as well.  We soon took it to a dealership and they realized that the fuel injector was not seated properly.  We reseated and tested all the fuel injectors with an Oms meter, they were all good.  My father seems to think that when we took off the intake manifold and replaced the vacuume lines, we hooked them up wrong, or there is a leak in the vac lines.  I am like 95% certain they are all hooked up correctly.  I think it might have something to do with the PCM/ECM computer and I don't know whats wrong.  We are at a standstill because everything in chilton tells us to test the car with it running, and we can't get it to start in the first place.  Anyone with some insite, I'd appreciate it, thanks.  Huh Huh Huh
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Mo'Joe
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Re: 96 Avenger 2.5 V6.....won't turn over
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2008, 11:42:06 PM »

Did you check the codes? That would be the first place to start. Go to Autozone, they'll check your codes for free. 0
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Bad Venge
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Re: 96 Avenger 2.5 V6.....won't turn over
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2008, 12:41:46 AM »

It could be one of the relays on the fire wall ....Or a bad CPS
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mike
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Re: 96 Avenger 2.5 V6.....won't turn over
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2008, 01:31:25 AM »

Codes are all cleared out b/c i had to disconnect the battery to do the starter and the fuel injectors.  I have devise to check my own codes, but since it won't start up it won't give the computer time to check the system.  As for the CPS, can you give me a little more information on that please? I would appreciate it.  I'm looking into it as we speak, but can you clairfy a little for me, please. I am mechanically inclined, so I can understand most of what I'm told. Thanks a lot.
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mike
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Re: 96 Avenger 2.5 V6.....won't turn over
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2008, 01:47:35 AM »

Chilton's tells me:

"The PCM determines what cylinder to fire from the crankshaft position sensor input and the camshaft position sensor input. On my 6-cylinder engine, the sensor is a Hall effect device that detects notches in the flexplate.  The notches generate pulses from high to low in the crankshaft position sensor output voltage.  When a metal portion of the notches line up with the crankshaft position sensor, the sensor output voltage goes low (less than 0.5 volts).  When a notch aligns with the sensor, voltage goes high (5.0 volts).  As a group of notches pass under the sensor, the output voltage switches from low (metal) to high (notch) then back to low.  If available, an oscilloscope can display the square wave patterns of each voltage pulse.  From the width of the output voltage pulses, the PCM calculates the engine speed.  The width of the pulses represent the amount of time the output voltage stays high before switching back to low.  The period of time the sensor output voltage stays high before switching back to low is referred to as pulse width.  The faster the engine is operating, the smaller the pulse width on the oscilloscope."


To test the CPS, I've got to have a oscilloscope.  I don't have one of these, and its a $60 part, that I'd have to order b/c no one has it in stock.  What (besides what I've read in Chilton) makes you lean toward the CPS rather than something else? And is there something I'd be able to check out in the meantime while its being shipped?
I appreciate you taking the time to help me out.

Thanks a lot,

Mike
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mike
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Re: 96 Avenger 2.5 V6.....won't turn over
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2008, 01:53:18 AM »

Relays are good...
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JusBringIt
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Re: 96 Avenger 2.5 V6.....won't turn over
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2008, 01:15:54 AM »

have u considered replacing the cps? the starter's firing, you've got your fuel injectors, ur sensor giving the incorrect reading will throw ur pcm off. I wouldnt say its the pcm vs the more vulnerable sensors that give it necessary information.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 01:17:46 AM by JusBringIt » Logged



john
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Re: 96 Avenger 2.5 V6.....won't turn over
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2008, 12:12:32 AM »

have you figured out the problem with your car yet?
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mike
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Re: 96 Avenger 2.5 V6.....won't turn over
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2008, 09:25:14 PM »

no, i haven't figured out the problem yet....took it to a mechanic, but i think he's trying to screw me over...he told me that apparently my timing belt is off by 6-7 teeth....but this makes no sense for 2 reasons. a) the car was running and then stopped, noone touched the timing belt b) the car has an interference motor (listed by the manufacturer as an engine whose values might contact the pistons if the camshaft was rotated separately from the camshaft)......

let me note a bit of history on this vehicle.  we had to replace the alternator on the car about a year or so ago....when we did we put the timing belt off one tooth...it blew the valves on the head of the engine....it blew the heads by just cranking the engine of the car, it cranked, then got stuck because it was an interference motor (the valves broke off)....

this guy is telling me that my timing belt somehow slipped 6-7 teeth (even though the tensioner is still tight)...and that even though it cranks, the valves might or might not be in tact.....is it possible for the valves to just bend....and is this sort of advice from this mechanic even possible???  Anyone with any other ideas on whats going on?
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mike
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Re: 96 Avenger 2.5 V6.....won't turn over
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2008, 06:13:25 PM »

just wanted to give everyone an update...i've finally got the car running...apparently somehow the timing slipped, which makes no sence because i have a zero-interference engine, so who knows....but low and behold i started the engine the other day and put everything back together...The only problem is that 1) I have white smoke coming from the exhaust pipes, and 2) the idle is low...oh yeah...i still have all the electrical problems.....

I've looked up the white smoke, so far what i hear is that the smoke can be caused either by a blown head gasket or a cracked cylinder head, or because some coolent has gotten somehwere it shouldn't be...i've filled up the radiator, and the overflow resivour, and let it run, but it continues to put out white smoke (only when it is warmed up)....as for the low idle, i have had this problem before, and i can't remember what fixed it, however, i've seen it a million times on the forum, so i will look on another thread....the electrical problems still persist, i don't even want to think about those till the engine is working right.....and oh yeah, the back rotors either need to be turned or replaced.....so thats were we stand...thank all of you for all the help and advice so far..

MIKE
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Darktengu
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Re: 96 Avenger 2.5 V6.....won't turn over
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2008, 09:32:06 PM »

at least it's coming along   Undecided
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Re: 96 Avenger 2.5 V6.....won't turn over
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2008, 01:03:47 PM »

i kinda went through the same thing:

checked the asd and everything else

i thought it was my dist./ cps...replaced the dist/cps ..checked timing and it started. however after a few starts it wouldnt start again.

i thought it was my remote starter...nope

eventually found out it was my starter, it has a dead spot in it and the car would not start in that spot.

i put a screw driver inbetween the terminals and let it spin, then went in the car and fired it up Grin


i dont know if this helps or applies, but here it is


CMC
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