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Bryan
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Elbach question
« on: November 21, 2006, 11:38:17 PM »

this guy is about to selle me a set of elbach lowering springs 1.5" in the front 1.7" rear for 50$ ...but there for a pt cruiser would they fit my car?
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Bad Venge
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Re: Elbach question
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2006, 12:13:55 AM »

NO won't fit ...
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Nykon
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Re: Elbach question
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2006, 12:39:57 AM »

Eibach Pro Kit for the Eclipse

pt # 6014.140  I can get them for $230 plus shipping
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ken
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Re: Elbach question
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2006, 06:47:36 AM »

do a lil research first, is your car a 4 or a 6. if its a 6 then nope, def not gon work. now you have to make sure the years are close too but i was told that a lot of neon suspension parts are interchangable with ours. a long time ago i went lookin for somethin at our local junk yard and a neon came up on the list of cars that had the same parts. prob is, i cant remember for the life of me what it was that i was lookin for i was just suprised that the neon was on that list.
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Nykon
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Re: Elbach question
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2006, 04:06:23 PM »

pretty sure he has the 4 cyl, single exhaust pipe and it looks stock
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Bryan
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Re: Elbach question
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2006, 06:34:07 PM »

naw its a V6 from a 99 avenger im not sure why the exhaust is single...thanks for the help ill probably just buy them anyway their brand new so i could probably make profit
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ken
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Re: Elbach question
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2006, 08:22:00 PM »

yeah, i would just call the local junk yard and find out if your springs can be used in any other cars but since yours is a 6 then i doubt theyll work even if they do fit as your front end will be to heavy for the springs
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redstar_gearhead
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Re: Elbach question
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2006, 01:05:38 AM »

Not sure if I want to lower or not, I'm considering it, but in the distant future.  When I do though I want to get all the stuff right the first time along with camber kits.  If I lower it, it will be 1 to 1.75 inches.  Eibach Pro-kit springs, camber kit, struts? don't know.  They roads are so bad here -don't want to go TOO low.  They DO make kits for the Avenger/Sebring too, for all you guys who don't know.
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Re: Elbach question
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2006, 02:25:55 AM »

OK You want to lower your car , First off how do you drive it ....
Is the car a daily driver ?? or is it an all out show car??Is the car kitted??what are your local roads like??Snow and ice in the winter?? All of these will influence what type of lowering you might want ...
For a Daily driver I highly suggest a Drop spring , less maintenance/more reliable/Easier on the wallet
All out show car/kitted Think about coilovers or the Tiens for adjustability , ability to slam at shows
Bad local roads /big potholes/steep drives/roadkill galore think of a lesser drop or coilovers/tiens
Snow and ice in winter /think coilovers or tiens for ability to raise it back up for winter(will require alignment)

OK Now What do I need:
Lowering springs that WORK:
Eibach pro kit 1.8" drop settles to about a 2" drop
Suspension Techniques 1.3" drop settles to about 1.75" drop
Intrax 2" drop settles to around 3" drop or more
Dropzone 2" drop settles to 3" or more
OK these are from MY experience on a V6 ... I HIGHLY recommend either the Eibach Pro kit or the Suspension Tech springs... They provide the BEST stock like ride and are VERY drivable on less then perfect roads...
IMO The Intrax and Dropzone springs are VERY VERY low and VERY VERY bouncy
they seem to be remarketed Eclipse springs that have too low of a spring rate to handle the V6 ...

Coilovers that WORK:
Maxspeed/Dreamspeed coilovers
SkunkII Coilovers
These provide good spring rates/driveability and adjustability... They Require an experienced installer to give best results...Poor installation you will have noises bumps rattles ect that will never go away ... Properly installed they are descent but require modification of the struts that VOID warranty...
I DO NOT suggest getting no name ebay coilovers for the eclipse , With too low of spring rates they WILL collapse/They will ride poorly/You will end up replacing them ... Even some Named coilovers will not hold Up , I purchased a set of WeaponR's and they were junk after 3 months...

Tien all in one unit
These include coilovers AND Strut combo's built together ...
These have great spring rates, are made as a unit so you do not have to assemble them are very reliable and easy to replace the entire suspension...There are several Tien units from the basic to the EDFC adjustable

Struts:
Will I need Struts , YES any lowering will require struts... Can I use my stock struts?? Yes but they will blow and be worthless in no time...So WHY bother, I don't care if you are broke, save your money do it once and do it right !!!
KYB GR2's are very inexpensive CAN be used , But IMO they are not the RIGHT choice they are basically Upgraded stockers... Many have used them , but they fail pretty soon on Springs that are 2" or more, Same with coilovers

KYB AGX's Are more money/more adjustable hold up well to being lowered/ there are two part#'s one for 2" lower one for lower then 2" The lower set is better for coilover use as they have a shorter rod and prevent BOTTOMING...

Koni and Tokkiko both make excellent struts but are normally more expensive and harder to find...

Camber Kits:
After lowering will I need a Camber kit Huh YES you will definately need at least a REAR KIT, this can be done with longer bolts and washers, OR you can purchase a premade kit
Will I need a front kit Huh POSSIBLY I've dropped numerous cars for members/non members and here's what I have found, I've seen 1.3" springs require no kit to up to a 3 degree kit ... What I suggest is dropping the car/let springs settle for at least a week then take the car in for an alignment check, they can then get the car up on a rack and TELL you what kit you will need.... Do your homework on the alignment shop ask locals with local cars that are dropped where they got the alignments done... Try to use a shop thats used to lowered cars and able to get them up on the ramp...

OK how much will all this cost me Huh
Plan on spending around $1000 on parts/alignment ... If you are not a do it yourselfer then add $300 for labor to install some shops will be more/less depending on your area.. Of course those prices are new parts , you might be able to get a deal on used parts but remember you can't be sure on used struts...

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ken
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Re: Elbach question
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2006, 08:21:03 PM »

OK You want to lower your car , First off how do you drive it ....
Is the car a daily driver ?? or is it an all out show car??Is the car kitted??what are your local roads like??Snow and ice in the winter?? All of these will influence what type of lowering you might want ...
For a Daily driver I highly suggest a Drop spring , less maintenance/more reliable/Easier on the wallet
All out show car/kitted Think about coilovers or the Tiens for adjustability , ability to slam at shows
Bad local roads /big potholes/steep drives/roadkill galore think of a lesser drop or coilovers/tiens
Snow and ice in winter /think coilovers or tiens for ability to raise it back up for winter(will require alignment)

OK Now What do I need:
Lowering springs that WORK:
Eibach pro kit 1.8" drop settles to about a 2" drop
Suspension Techniques 1.3" drop settles to about 1.75" drop
Intrax 2" drop settles to around 3" drop or more
Dropzone 2" drop settles to 3" or more
OK these are from MY experience on a V6 ... I HIGHLY recommend either the Eibach Pro kit or the Suspension Tech springs... They provide the BEST stock like ride and are VERY drivable on less then perfect roads...
IMO The Intrax and Dropzone springs are VERY VERY low and VERY VERY bouncy
they seem to be remarketed Eclipse springs that have too low of a spring rate to handle the V6 ...

Coilovers that WORK:
Maxspeed/Dreamspeed coilovers
SkunkII Coilovers
These provide good spring rates/driveability and adjustability... They Require an experienced installer to give best results...Poor installation you will have noises bumps rattles ect that will never go away ... Properly installed they are descent but require modification of the struts that VOID warranty...
I DO NOT suggest getting no name ebay coilovers for the eclipse , With too low of spring rates they WILL collapse/They will ride poorly/You will end up replacing them ... Even some Named coilovers will not hold Up , I purchased a set of WeaponR's and they were junk after 3 months...

Tien all in one unit
These include coilovers AND Strut combo's built together ...
These have great spring rates, are made as a unit so you do not have to assemble them are very reliable and easy to replace the entire suspension...There are several Tien units from the basic to the EDFC adjustable

Struts:
Will I need Struts , YES any lowering will require struts... Can I use my stock struts?? Yes but they will blow and be worthless in no time...So WHY bother, I don't care if you are broke, save your money do it once and do it right !!!
KYB GR2's are very inexpensive CAN be used , But IMO they are not the RIGHT choice they are basically Upgraded stockers... Many have used them , but they fail pretty soon on Springs that are 2" or more, Same with coilovers

KYB AGX's Are more money/more adjustable hold up well to being lowered/ there are two part#'s one for 2" lower one for lower then 2" The lower set is better for coilover use as they have a shorter rod and prevent BOTTOMING...

Koni and Tokkiko both make excellent struts but are normally more expensive and harder to find...

Camber Kits:
After lowering will I need a Camber kit Huh YES you will definately need at least a REAR KIT, this can be done with longer bolts and washers, OR you can purchase a premade kit
Will I need a front kit Huh POSSIBLY I've dropped numerous cars for members/non members and here's what I have found, I've seen 1.3" springs require no kit to up to a 3 degree kit ... What I suggest is dropping the car/let springs settle for at least a week then take the car in for an alignment check, they can then get the car up on a rack and TELL you what kit you will need.... Do your homework on the alignment shop ask locals with local cars that are dropped where they got the alignments done... Try to use a shop thats used to lowered cars and able to get them up on the ramp...

OK how much will all this cost me Huh
Plan on spending around $1000 on parts/alignment ... If you are not a do it yourselfer then add $300 for labor to install some shops will be more/less depending on your area.. Of course those prices are new parts , you might be able to get a deal on used parts but remember you can't be sure on used struts...


k, i understand everything you wrote, i get it all but the part bout the rear camber kit.  you said at least a rear.  why the h*ll would he want a rear kit? i say get the front kit, since i lowered my car almost 7 years ago now (been off the road for 5 years) i have yet to even show uneven wear on my back tires when i was driving it but i blew front tires like it was my job. now what is the logic behind having just the rear camber kit, please explain that to me as much as possible and this thing you mentioned with the longer bolts and washers, i already have a front kit for her but please tell me why your thinking is opposite mine cause i have never heard anyone say that and im always tryin to learn new things. thank you much
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Bad Venge
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Re: Elbach question
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2006, 10:23:17 PM »

Every venge I've dropped needed the rear camber most were several degree's off and the toe was way off ....
You can correct the rear camber by getting longer bolts and adding spacers...1/4" of spacers per degree of alignment you are off ...LMK if you need a shopping list for bolts /spacers...You can also use washers instead of spacers
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Pete
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Re: Elbach question
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2007, 04:15:20 PM »

Ok, I was gonna post a new topic for this, but seeing that it's talking about enough, I'll just add to this.  I have the wrong springs on my car.  I ordered them for a 96-00 Sebring LXi, but they are def for an Eclipse, they are so low, my tires are tucked.  I hit the slightest dip in the road and I rub.  Not good.  I'm trying to determine what the correct Part number is so I can order the right ones.  I've been told by a vendor, that 2816140 should be the correct ones.  Does anyone have the number for their springs that were the correct ones for a 95-00 Sebring LXi V6.  I'm also seeing 2817140 listed for 95-00.
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ken
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Re: Elbach question
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2007, 07:59:30 AM »

every suspension part i have ever ordered was for a bring when i ordered it but when i got the box from ups or whoever, they all said i had parts in my hands for a 95-99 eclipse/talon.  almost everything for our cars is compatible with an eclipse so really there should be no problem there.
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Shiano
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Re: Elbach question
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2007, 11:08:44 AM »

Pulled from an online source on Ebay.

"At one point in time, everyone one of us has seen a lowered vehicle of some sort. Whether it’s a Honda Civic or a Lincoln Navigator, the uses and methods used to lower vehicles comes in a range of cheap to expensive and dangerous to safe. In this guide, I hope to explain some of the most common methods used and my opinion of them.

Let’s start with the basics. What is the point of the suspension? It’s not to make your butt feel nice. It’s basic use is to keep the friction of the tire on the road. Without keeping the tire in contact with the road, the car will just go in one direction. You won’t be able to turn because there won’t be anything pushing your car in any other direction. Given that basic fact, no matter what your reason is for lowering a car (looks, performance, etc), you must make sure to keep that basic idea in mind.

So now that you have that understanding, what are the components to lowering the car. There are three basic components: Springs, Shocks, Leaves, and Torsion Bars. Springs and shocks are used mostly on cars and light SUV’s. They can either be separated or come as one unit called a strut(which is very commonly used). A strut is nothing more than a shock pushed inside the spring. Leaves are usually used in the rear of heavy duty trucks and we won’t cover it as not many people actually lower heavy duty trucks as much. Torsion Bars too aren’t as popular so I won’t cover that either.

So what does the spring do and what does the shock do? It’s actually very simple. A spring controls ride height handles the road’s elevation changes (like bumps). A shock dampens the springs movement. Huh? Let’s go with an example. If you drive a car without a shock (or have worn shocks which doesn’t do anything) and hit a bump, the car will start bouncing. Because it’s a spring, it will keep bouncing up and down many times until eventually it stops. A shock is a dampening device that reduces that bounce so it bounces only a few times. The reason why this is important brings us back to keeping friction on the road concept. When your car is up in the air, it doesn’t keep as much contact with the road.

One last thing. I will refer to rice to describe something people do to make performance worse just because of ignorance or doing something incorrectly.

Now let’s start with rice tip number 1. If springs control ride height, why not just cut the tip of the spring to lower the car? No no no no no. Springs on car are what we call progressive springs. It basically means the more you compress it, the harder it becomes to compress it. Say it take 30lbs to compress the spring a half inch. It would take 100lbs to compress it another half inch. The next half inch might take 500lbs. Why is this important? When you hit a small bump, the springs and shocks are suppose to compress allowing the wheel to move smoothly over it. If you cut the springs, now all of the sudden that small bump isn’t enough to compress the spring so the car will now jump over the bump. Remember a car in the air has less contact with the road. That’s VERY VERY dangerous and hence rice tip number 1 is NEVER cut your springs to lower the car.

Next is rice tip number 2. Now that you know not to cut springs, you will now buy lowering springs but use the OEM shocks (OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer or stock or what came with the car). By lowering the car, you are compressing the shock and forcing the shock to travel a shorter distance but at a much higher frequency. Remember shocks are made to dampen the bounce. Each shock has a certain operating range. Shocks that came with your car is not meant to be compressed for long periods of time while at the same time traveling short distances very very quickly. The car might feel fine at the beginning but you will quickly boil the oil inside the shocks (having the shock travel really quickly) and thus blow out the shock and render it useless. So rice tip number 2 is to make sure you buy the springs AND shocks when you lower the car.

Next is rice tip number 3. This one is a bit harder to understand and I’m running out of space. When you put load on any corner of the car, you in effect force the top of the wheel towards the inside of the car. If you look at a heavily loaded car from the front, the wheels look like: / \. The reason why it does that is when you corner at high speeds, there is a huge lateral force and you get the best grip by pushing in the opposite direction. It’s great for cornering but when tires are tilted, the tire footprint becomes smaller and thus once again rob tire friction when just going straight down the road. When you lower your car, the car is set up to automatically have that tilt called camber because it mechanically thinks it has a load. So how do you push the tire straight? In most cases, you will need either a camber kit or a new arm to straighten out the tire with the camber kit being much much cheaper and more readily available. So in addition to buying springs and shocks, you might also need a camber kit to fix the camber problems.

So let’s talk about what’s available on the market today. There are many manufacturers that offer springs. Different drivers want different handling characteristics but the top manufacturer of springs include Eibach, H&R, and Neuspeed.

For shocks, the top manufacturers include Eibach, Tokiko, Neuspeed, KYB, and Koni. Some even offer adjustable

There are makers of complete strut systems like Tien and JIC which not only are height adjustable but some of the shocks are adjustable as well.

Makers of camber kits are Ingall and SPC with my opinion that Ingalls are a LOT better.

There are also replacement kits like airbags and hydraulics (which makes your car bounce by itself) which I don’t recommend. Those technologies are used for show and is dangerous to use in the streets.

Final things to take with you. The lower the car, the stiffer the car becomes. Why? Because there’s less room for the suspension to travel otherwise the tire ends up hitting the car. The springs have to be stiffer to prevent bottoming out. My recommendation for basic street use is a sport setting drop (not a race) with non-adjustable shocks. (Personally Eibach is softest with H&R then finally Neuspeed being the stiffest)This will cover 85% of the people out there. For those looking for a little more, use adjustable shocks. Quite a bit more costly but it gives you the added control. Finally for those serious ones out there, a full coilover system by either Tien or JIC will satisfy the masses. And don’t use race setting for street use. Beware of “fake” coilover systems that is basically a coilover sleeve. Stick with the manufacturers I mentioned and you’ll be glad you did.

Look for more guides from me in the future.

Zeoth
Friends Don’t Let Friends Drive Stock"

end qoute.
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Bad Venge
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Re: Elbach question
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2007, 11:43:56 AM »

UNFORTUNATELY the springs for the eclipse are a different rate then the Venge/Bring spring thus the lower drop and bouncy ride
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