I'm having a problem(s) with my '95 Avenger ES. If left idling too long (and sometimes just a few seconds after started), it tends to shut off. This has been going on for a fair amount of time now but has not been a major problem until recently. It started out real sporatic, and has slowly become more of a nusiance. I originally thought it to be something to do with my transmition, b/c the car seemed to be shifting kinda funny also. Upon some reading/research on this site, and others, I think I've chalked that up to, what seems to be called, 5th gear syndrone—but more on that later. I've had my car looked at, but the dealer stated they couldn't find anything (serious) wrong with it. The only thing they could come up with was the accelorator cable was loose and somewhat frayed. So I had them replace it thinking that might solve my problems. WRONG! But back to my original question about the shutting off problem. As I mentioned, it started out sporatic and moved to more regular. Basically, if I leave my car idling for too long it will shut off. Sometimes it will do it as I'm coming to a stop as well. For the most part it seems to only attempt to shut off when the RPMs are under 1000—and it also seems to be idling slightly lower than normal (averaging approx 500 or so). There was one time, however, that I was turning from one road to another that it kinda sputtered like it wanted to shut off. All of these symptoms have me thinking it may be the IAC, but I'm not real sure. The one thing that kinda has me confused as far as that goes is the other day when I started up my car, it almost immediately shut off. So I started it back up—as I have all the other times, and it drove normal afterwards. Except this time the check engine light came on, and it wanted to sputter and shut off everytime I would come to a stop on the way home. The only way I could keep it from doing so was by depressing the gas enough to keep the RPMs at around 1000. That has not happened again since though. I don't really understand what the issue is, but the car appears to drive just fine with the exception of the described problems. Also, my gas mileage seems to have decreased fairly significantly, could that be a side effect of this problem? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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i'm a peripheral visionary. i can see into the future, but way off to the side.
Lots of folks here have had similar problems. The 5th gear "syndrome" is nothing. Just the normal way these trannys work. They're real eager to "lock in" to top gear and will do it as soon as they feel they can. Your idle at around 500RPM is fine, I have an LXi and it idles there great. The problem to me sounds like your TPS(Throttle Position Sensor). It may be bad or it may need to be adjusted. A bad TPS will tell the computer that the trottle is actually at a different position that it really is and thus your computer will try to run at this false state. If your CEL came on, get the codes from a garage or go to AutoZone and use their diagnostic tool for free. That should tell you where the issue is.
Seems like the top three issues with these cars electronically are the TPS, IAC and EGR valve. Start there and see what happens. Good luck.
I agree with Mark. I had similar issues with the TPS. I would like to add that the TPS is not adjustable, and will have to be replaced if faulty. When my TPS went bad, it did not throw a check engine light code, so I had to use other means of detection....a buddy and myself wiggled any sensor that we could find under the hood until the idle problem showed itself. That was my "diagnostic tool," so good luck (and keep us posted).
To answer ur last question, YES, it is quite possible that ur decrease in fuel mileage is caused by this problem. what is the mileage? have u ever had a tuneup done? ur car going into a fifth gear may be a torque converter issue.
To answer ur last question, YES, it is quite possible that ur decrease in fuel mileage is caused by this problem. what is the mileage? have u ever had a tuneup done? ur car going into a fifth gear may be a torque converter issue.
First of all, I want to thank y'all for your advise. Now, to answer your questions (and inquire a few more of my own). My mileage is averaging approx. 22-24 mpg. That's not bad considering I do mostly city driving, but it was approx. 26-28 mpg just a little over a year ago. Now, I know my car has some factors going against if for mileage: 1) it's getting older and has around 140,000 miles on it 2) it's got larger, heavier wheels than factory (but the height difference is only about an 1/2" to 1" since I accomendated with the lower sidewalls on the tires) 3) it's starting to develop some classic "old car" symptoms, like small oil leakage and whatnot. But, I try to keep it's regular maintenance up to date—I keep it tuned-up (recently replaced my plugs with the bousch 4+ plugs), I change the oil regularly, and I try to do all the other regular scheduled maintenances as well. I have only a couple of small performance mods (cold air intake and custom duel exhaust). Those are suppose to help with gas mileage! And have somewhat, up until recently. About the torque converter issue, well, I'm looking into that being a possibility with the whole shifting issue.
As far as the TPS goes, what's the best way to go about checking and replacing it? Do any of y'all know of a good—inexpensive—source to get one? Also, was I way off in assuming the problem might be my IAC? Because one solution I was considering is to replace both the TPS & the IAC—since they are both the original parts, to my knowledge. Do any of y'all have any advise/recommendations on that idea? I'd like to know what the best way to check the IAC is, just for my knowledge. B/c I'll probably go ahead and, at least, cheak it while I'm looking for this problem. Please advise, and thanks again for all the help.
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i'm a peripheral visionary. i can see into the future, but way off to the side.
well, when i do my oil change I try to use some additives which really seem to work. I havent had my car steadily on the road for a while, so i dont remember the name. I dont know much about the tps as ive never had to deal with it, but yeah, it may be reversing the mpg improvement of ur cai. im assuming ur CAI is clear of debris. this helps filtration, which isnt really necessary if u have a good filter, and decreases performance. ALso, tranny flush couldnt hurt, there's a dIY somewhere on this site.
Ya know, my 96 was doin pretty much the same thing, and after re-placing the TPS and the MAP sensor, it wouldn't change. Now on top of having to try and keep the idle speed around 1000 or it'll stall, when you actually go to move the vehicle, does it seem very very sluggish, til about 2000, or has it ever tached itself out, Im only asking cuz when I purchased mine, I had these 3 problems, and it ended up being that the EGR valve was no good. So don't overlook that also.
Ya know, my 96 was doin pretty much the same thing, and after re-placing the TPS and the MAP sensor, it wouldn't change. Now on top of having to try and keep the idle speed around 1000 or it'll stall, when you actually go to move the vehicle, does it seem very very sluggish, til about 2000, or has it ever tached itself out, Im only asking cuz when I purchased mine, I had these 3 problems, and it ended up being that the EGR valve was no good. So don't overlook that also.
NNSJ, First of all, thanks for looking out. I actually haven't had a chance to deal with this issue as of yet, but am planning on doing so this coming weekend. Hopefully I'll be able to do so, I've been letting this problem "slide" for way too long. I've already had my EGR valve replaced. It's been a while (a few years) since, but I sure hope that is not the problem, again. This is just a general question for anyone who may know; do EGR valves tend to go bad easily/frequently? As I mentioned, I'm planning on replacing my TPS and IAC this weekend (hopefully). I will def keep the EGR in mind if replacing said parts doesn't resolve my issues. To answer your question about it being sluggish; it's only gotten to the point of me needing to keep it at around 1000rpm to keep it from stalling that on time, and yes, it was pretty sluggish then until it hit about 2000rpm. But it hasn't done that since that one time. Right now the only problems I'm having is the car will shut off every now and then if left idling too long (very sporadicly), and every once and a while it will kinda stutter a lil when accelerating or cruising. Not to mention the horrible gas mileage I'm getting right now. I'm hoping that replacing my TPS and IAC will solve these problems, and I will keep y'all posted on my progress with it. Unfortunately, I havn't had a chance to take care of this thus far. If anyone has any other advise to offer, it will be greatly appreciated.
Keith, As I said earlier, I'll keep everyone posted on this. Hopefully, I can be of some help to you and you'll be able to repair your problem as well.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 02:05:11 AM by Todd »
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i'm a peripheral visionary. i can see into the future, but way off to the side.
there is a decent write up on testing the TPS in the chiltons manual. just need a voltmeter. egr can be blocked off temporarily at the least, it will spit out a CEL when blocked off. also check the throttle body for crud. just pull off the plastic intake line, make sure the butterfly is not all crapped up. there is a small bypass line for idle when the butterfly is closed. if it's plugged up it can die at idle.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 02:06:28 AM by downer »
well, low and behold, i wasn't able to get under the hood this passed wkend. it ended up raining pretty much the whole time—or at least the one day i actually had to time to replace the tps , and i don't have a garage. i did, however, get a tps (didn't worry about the iac b/c, according to the chilton book, it requires a special tool during the process of putting it in - one i don't have and don't really have the money for). i'll just do the tps first and see what happens, since most everyone who's responded to this post has pointed me in that direction anyway.
i do have one question tho. i just filled up with gas and calculated my mileage. 19.93!!! that's ridiculous!! i've never gotten that bad of gas mileage in my life with this car, and never should. so, could the tps alone be causing that bad of gas mileage or might there be something else in the equation? it's been steadily getting worse upon every fill-up, and my driving habits and locations have remained the same. this is whigging me out. any help/advice will be greatly appreciated.
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i'm a peripheral visionary. i can see into the future, but way off to the side.
I haven't had my TPS go bad. And all my advice comes from experience so I'm no help. It's possible that it might have something to do with it. I mean that will give your computer an idea of what fuel mix should be used.
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titan-racing.com Medialocker.org
Mod List. Um WAY too many to fit on here. But the engine can handle about 800HP
one more quick question before i get on this project. do i have to remove the throttle body to change the tps or can it be done, fairly easily, with the throttle body still on? it looks like i may be able to change the tps without removing it. just wondering, cus i'm lazy and kinda wouldn't mind skipping that step if possible.
i donno tho, it might be easier to clean the throttle body with it off, and i may as well do that while i'm in the process of doing all this. lemme know what y'all think.
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i'm a peripheral visionary. i can see into the future, but way off to the side.
take the battery and the windshield washer fluid reservoir, and u should have ample room....those are pretty easy. the reservoir really gets in the way i think....other wise..just remove the battery.
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, and i don't have a garage. i did, however, get a tps (didn't worry about the iac b/c, according to the chilton book, it requires a special tool during the process of putting it in - one i don't have and don't really have the money for). i'll just do the tps first and see what happens, since most everyone who's responded to this post has pointed me in that direction anyway.
