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My headlights dim everytime the bass hits in my car when its turned up loud. anyone know of way to fix it?

Better alternator.

thats what i thought, but what do you recommend? and how much would it run me? is there any REAL gain from getting a new one? not just for the sound system, but any preformance gain?

Nope...maybe if you get a good enough one, you can install a mircowave in the back seat, though ;D

No real performance gains, but well worth it if you are running a ton of stereo stuff.  They aren't cheap though.  We sell one for about $600.  Another thing you can do is upgrade your big 3.  That a lot of the time will get rid of your problem.  Whatever you do and whatever anyone tells you, don't wast your money on a Capacitor they are really worth crap and don't do anything.

Big 3? all im running are two 12" Sony Xplod pentagons

Right sorry...

 Performing a "Big 3" upgrade on your vehicle is one way to improve the electrical system performance and its ability to supply power to your audio system.  This upgrade will help any vehicle using an after-market amplified stereo system, and most certainly should be performed on any vehicle after a high-output alternator is installed.

Definition: the "Big Three" upgrade means improving the current capacity of three cables:
1) alternator positive to battery positive
2) battery negative to chassis
3) engine ground to chassis 

Some people replace the factory wiring; others add additional cables to the factory wiring.  Its best to add additional wiring

Here are instructions.  ;D
Please be sure you read and understand this entire instruction before you begin.

Definition: the "Big Three" upgrade means improving the current capacity of three cables: 1) alternator positive to battery positive, 2) battery negative to chassis, and 3) engine ground to chassis.  Some people replace the factory wiring; others add additional cables to the factory wiring.  This instruction is to add cables to existing OEM wiring.

Parts and Tools:

As a minimum, you will need to purchase the following:

• Sufficient length of high-strand count high capacity power cable.
- The length required differs for every vehicle.  You can measure the length of the existing cables and buy the same length, or contact your dealer or a mechanic and ask, or sometimes you can look it up in a manufacturer's wiring book, or guess.  If you guess, make sure you over-estimate and buy too much.
- High strand count cable is more flexible and more reliable than low-strand count cable.  Never use solid-core wire in a moving vehicle as it will eventually break.
- The gauge of wire you need depends on the total current draw of your audio system, and/or the current generating capacity of your alternator.  Never use smaller cable that you used to power your amps; never use smaller cable than what already exists in your vehicle; never use smaller cable than the generating capacity of your alternator; never use smaller than 4 AWG (it's just not worth the time to use anything smaller); if in doubt, always use higher gauge cable than you think you need.  If you look at the Power and Ground charts and your amplifier current draw corresponds to 2 AWG cable, use no smaller than 2 AWG cable, and use 1/0 if you can.

• 6 ring terminals or lugs of the appropriate size for the cable chosen.  Two of these need to be large enough to fit over your battery posts, or appropriately sized to bolt onto your existing battery terminals.
• 1/2" or 5/8" shrink tubing (or some other form of permanent electrical insulation.  Tape is NOT recommended.)
• Cable ties (plastic zip ties.)

• Wire cutters large enough to handle the cable you choose.
• Crimpers large enough to handle the connectors you choose.
• Soldering iron or gun.
• Solder.
• Scotch brite and/or a small wire brush.
• Heat gun.
• Safety razor blade (or other tool for stripping cable).
• Heat gun (if using shrink tubing).
• Wrenches for removing bolts in your vehicle.

Procedure:

1.  Make sure your engine is completely cool before beginning.  Identify the three cables being replaced.  Make sure you can reach both ends of all cables.  NOTE: the engine block to chassis cable may be between the engine and the transmission, or connected to the transmission and the fire wall, and is often an un-insulated flat braid cable.

2.  Determine the lengths of cable needed to reach between the three locations being upgraded.  Be sure you measure with a flexible tape (a tape measure used for sewing works great) and record the total length along the path you intend to install the cable.  You do not want your cables to be pulled tight between any two locations as things move and vibrate as you drive.  Be sure to include at least 1 inch extra for slack.  NOTE: there is no reason to copy the existing wiring layout in your vehicle unless you want to.  Also, be sure that the path you choose does not follow or lay across anything that gets hot, like exhaust parts, or anything that must move, like throttle linkage.

3.  Cut your new cable to the three proper lengths.  NOTE: some people like to use red cable for positive and black cable for negative.  Doing this is completely up to you and is nice, but not necessary.  You can use cable with any color insulation you like.

4.  Strip each end of all cables to the proper length for the terminal lugs being used.  NOTE: after full insertion into the lug, a small "band" of bare wire is usually seen between the back of the lug and the beginning of the cable insulation.

5.  Begin at any one end and insert the stripped cable into the lug.  Make sure it is fully inserted.  Crimp the connector to hold the wire in place.  NOTE: crimping large cable can be difficult.  The intention here is not to make the crimp the sole means of holding the wire, but only to make sure the lug does not slip around during the soldering phase.  I do NOT recommend using hammers or pliers or vices to crimp the connector as over-crimping can break the strands of the cable, reducing the current carrying capacity.  Do not over-crimp.

6.  You may need to use a vise or some other set of "helping hands" to hold the cable while you solder it.  Heat your soldering iron and place it on the connector (on the lug side) barrel.  Hold a piece of solder against the tip of the iron and melt the solder into the strands of the cable.  Use sufficient solder to fill the connector and completely cover all strands of the cable.  NOTE: the lug will get hot and will burn you if you try to hold it.  Also, if the insulation on the cable starts to melt, you are over-heating the cable and not paying attention to melting the solder into the cable.  You do not need to try and melt the cable!

7.  Repeat the above steps on each end of all three cables.

8.  After the cables have completely cooled, cut a piece of shrink tubing long enough to cover the soldered barrel end of the lugs and reach about 1/2" onto the insulation of each cable end.  Slide this over each lug and use a heat gun to recover the tubing in place.

9.  Disconnect your battery, starting with the negative cable first then the positive cable.  Discharge any caps you may have in the system.

10.  Begin adding your new cables along side the existing ones.  I usually begin with the alternator positive cable. Locate the output stud on your alternator and remove the nut.  Slip the new cable onto the lug and replace the nut.  There is no need to disturb the existing cabling.  Route the new cable to the battery and position it to connect to the positive battery post (or connect it to the positive terminal on the OEM wiring) but do not connect the battery yet.

11.  Secure the new cable in place by using cable ties every 6 to 8 inches.  Secure the cable to cool non-moving parts!

12.  Locate where the negative battery cable attaches to the vehicle chassis.  Remove this bolt and the OEM battery cable, and clean the mounting area of the chassis using scotch brite and/or a wire brush.  Make sure there is no dirt, rust, paint, undercoating, etc in this location.  You want bright shiny metal.  Connect both your new ground and the OEM ground back to the chassis.  NOTE:  Some people like to create a new ground location by drilling into the chassis and using a bolt with star lock washers for the new ground cable.  Route this new cable back to the battery and position it to be attached, or connect it to the negative terminal.  Do not reconnect the battery yet.

13.  Secure the negative cable using cable ties every 6-8 inches.  Again, don't tie it to anything that moves or that gets hot!

14.  Disconnect the engine ground strap at both ends.  Using the wire brush or scotch brite, clean both the engine block and the chassis as you did for the first ground strap.

15.  Line up the lugs on both the OEM ground strap and your new ground cable, and use cable ties to secure them to each other.  This is much easier to accomplish in your lap or on the floor than it is while lying under your car or hanging upside down in the engine compartment.  Reinstall both cables at the same time using the factory bolts.

16.  Double check to make sure all bolts are tight.  Be careful not to over-tighten them as you don't want to strip anything!  Also, on some factory alternators it is WAY too easy to twist off the positive output lug.  If you break it off, well hell, you really wanted a high-output alternator anyway, right?  It is also a good idea at this point to measure resistance of the new cables.  Take an ohm reading between the battery end of the new ground cable and the engine block.  It should read less than one ohm.  Also check between the alternator bolt and the disconnected positive battery terminal, which should also be less than one ohm.  If you read too high resistance, double check all connections and make sure you do not have something c**ked sideways or hanging loose.

NOTE:  Realize that the "absolute ground" of the electrical system is not the battery negative terminal or the vehicle chassis, but is the case of the alternator itself.  This is why perhaps the most important cable among the Big 3 is the engine ground strap, as this is what connects the alternator ground to the vehicle's chassis.  Be certain the resistance between the alternator case (the engine block assuming the alternator is properly bolted to the engine) and the battery negative is minimized.  (Thanks to the12volt for pointing this out!)

17.  When you are sure you are done and anything in your system that you may have disconnected are re-connected, clean your battery posts and reconnect the positive battery terminal first, then the negative one.

18.  Start your vehicle.  Hopefully the engine starts.  :)  Examine the engine compartment and make sure none of your cables are getting hot or are vibrating or shaking around.  If they are vibrating too much you may need to relocate them or use more cable ties.  If you see smoke, immediately shut off the car and disconnect the battery.  Seek help.  :)

19.  Assuming all looks good, take a voltage reading at your amplifier and ensure you read 13.8 (or higher) volts.  This indicates a properly operating charging system.

20.  Now'd be a good time to turn it on and make sure it sounds good!  Then of course log onto the12volt.com and post that you have upgraded your Big 3!

Courtesy of the12volt.com

How many watts are you running ???

1200/sub on a 800 max amp

Upgrade to an OPTIMA battery you should be fine ...Most run 1000 watts with no dimming using just the optima battery

ok, and how much would one of those run me?

$79/$189 depending on your area

I recommend upgrading the alternator or the "big 3" over getting an optima battery.  The only time you will be really taking power off the battery is when the alternator can't keep up or if the engine is not running.  Taking power from the battery is not going to help the alternator but cause it more difficulty in keeping everything running.  All power comes from the alternator.  The battery is only there to run things when the engine is not running and to provide power to start the car.  Upgrading your battery to solve the problem would be the same as putting a capacitor in the system... which again, just causes more work for the alternator.  If you think about it, an amp is a bunch of capacitors, drainging the charging system, so why would adding another capacitor, or battery help, they will discharge and then the alternator will be strained trying to recharge them.

By upgrading the "big 3" you are making sure that you get all the potential you can out of the alternator.  Putting a higher amp alternator would be a sure way to make sure that you won't have problems because you should have more than enough amps to run everything.  Optima batteries are great, don't get me wrong.  If you decide to try that route you can go to a NAPA and get their Orbital battery (exact same technology, AGM battery) for around $129.  Trying the "big 3" will be less expensive, granted a bit more work, and probably provide you with better results.  I had the same problem in my Avenger and the battery did bupkis worth of good.

Hope my 2 cents helps.

i would recommend getting a capacitor for your system, after i got mine it stopped the headlights from dimming. you should be alright with a 1 or 1.5 farad cap

Don't waste your money...

ok, im confused ??? What should i get then? a new alt or upgrade? anyone know where i can get a cheap alt?

I recommend upgrading the "big 3" first, see if that solves your problem, you will be out $50 bucks maybe if it doesn't but you will still have upgraded your charging system significantly, if that doesn't work, get a higher amp alternator.

After studying a little history on large 1 Farad capacitors in car audio, you'd be amazed that they even sell at all. How useful are they? What do they really do? Will a Cap 'improve' my sound quality? Will it Prevent my lights from dimming? Will it audibly affect my audio system in any way?

Before you get the truth to any of the above questions, chances are, you've probably spent $100 or more on one of these devices. However, let's study a little history regarding this issue.

A long time ago, in a land far away, 2 elves...Ok, Richard Clark & Wayne Harris (Carsound magazine and the inventor of DB Drag, respectively) separately came up with a solution to preventing their lights from dimming.

WHO WERE THESE GUYZ?

As you may know, Richard Clark is one of the founders of autosound2000 Tech Briefs, Carsound magazine, and a published author of the industry of mobile electronics. In SQ competitions, he posted a record of 1234 1st place finishes, and only ended up NOT 1st in his first event. I've heard that he had minor system problems, but judging by his record, he must have corrected it. (evidently, he needed a Capacitor )

Wayne Harris was previously a leader at Rockford Fosgate in their development. Later, in his free time, he created the organization we call DB DRAG. Wayne was the first SQ World Champion from the organization we know as IASCA (International AutoSound Challenge Association).

Both of these gurus are both legends, and considered the leading experts in the field. During their competition days, both guyz came up with a way to assist in the prevention of voltage drops. In SQ competitions, the look of your system is actually more important than the sound, and having your lights NOT dim under high playing levels is a competitive advantage.

As you may know, amplifiers are made up a bank of little capacitors, resistors, etc. What has been common engineering knowledge is that capacitors store energy, and more or bigger ones assist in balancing the power supply.

Wayne came up with the idea of putting several dozen 'little' (approx 100uF) capacitors on a circuit board to 'extend' the power supplies storage. At about the same time, or shortly afterward, Richard came up with the idea of one huge mondo capacitor (I believe it was 800,000uF or 0.8F) to do the job.

Eventually, Richard won. The large cylindrical tubes won over the complicated 48 caps strapped to a circuit board. However, what did this really accomplish? Let's start here:

WHAT IS A CAPACITOR?

Basically, capacitors are an energy storage device. Large, 1 Farad or more
capacitors store energy (electrons) between their plates. Capacitors differ
from batteries because batteries store energy in the form of chemical
energy--and rely on acid and lead plates, as the place of storage. For a more detailed
description of a capacitor, go here:

http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/caraudio.htm

Then on the right hand side, scroll down to CAPACITOR. Keep in mind the use
of capacitors in an audio system.

WHY DO PEOPLE BUY CAPACITORS?

The number 1 reason would have to be because their lights dim when their
system is playing HARD. In car audio, we are told that a capacitor is
designed to prevent the voltage drop associated with your lights dimming.
The number2 reason is that it is rumored to 'improve' sound quality or
'stiffen' the power supply/source.

WHY DO MY LIGHTS DIM?

Headlights brightness is in direct proportion to the source voltage. For
instance, if your car is running, system voltage is ~12.5 -14.4 VOLTS. Your
lights will be much brighter than when your car is turned off--where battery
voltage is ~12V. Most car alternators put out between 75 to 120 amps of
current. When this current draw threshold of the charging system is
exceeded, system voltage will drop as power demands are now shared by the
alternator and the storage devices (battery & cap). We are using battery
reserves beyond this point until the demand lessens

When playing your system really hard. Your lights dim because your
alternator can't keep up it's charging voltage (around 13.5V) and therefore,
demand exceeds output. When this happens, your electronic devices are
dipping into the power storage of the battery. Since the battery stores
power at ~ 12-12.5V, there is a 1.3 to 1.8V drop in voltage available. This
in turn is why your lights dim down.

HOW MUCH POWER DOES A CAPACITOR STORE?

1 Farad = 100 joules or 100W/second
850cca battery = ~2,200,000 farads

For storage purposes, you'd need ~2,200 1 Farad capacitors to equal the energy of your battery.

Due to its impedence (ESR & ESL), a cap's energy is only 50% available. What's worse, is that in order for a 1 Farad cap to discharge, first the alternator output must have maxed out, and the voltage must have dropped around 1.5 volts. But I thought a cap was supposed to prevent that (voltage drop)!!!!!????? Yep, you got the point.


IF A BATTERY = 2,200 CAPS, THEN WHY BUY A (PUNY) CAP?

My question exactly. Marketing is the reason why people buy caps. In many cases, upgrading wiring will help your system get the maximum transfer of current. Once that has been reached, adding a capacitor may have a minor effect on your system. 50W over the course of a second is not a lot of power considering an amplifier may draw 2000W to put out 1400 watts. Let's look at the situation from a resources standpoint.

Alternator 80 amps
Car accessories (minus stereo) 40 amps
A large Car Audio system (DRAWS ) ~200 amps AT FULL OUTPUT

In this case, you have 240 amps of draw, but only 80 amps of current from the alternator. In your case, you need 160 amps x 12 volts or or let's say 1920 watts of energy. Since a cap stores 50W, how much of a difference do you think it's going to make? A cap is basically a peashooter. W+e need a Howitzer cannon here, to do the job well.

Also, Once a cap is discharged, where does it get it's power from? The alternator, which is already overloaded. Once a cap is discharged, it's worthless. Like SWEZ says, ・.The cap already shot its wad, an does limp til recharged・ I知 not so certain I will allow him to babysit my kids, but you get the drift. (I never said it quiet like that... and oh...I'm great with kids!)

SO, WHAT IS A CAPACITOR GOOD FOR?

1. Audio Jewelry- impress chicks with large cylindrical shiny thingy
2. Extra weight in winter time
3. A very POOR... BUT expensive distribution block
4. A projectile in the event of a crash
5. Rolling pin--for cooking purposes
6. A neat thing to tell your friend, "..Hey man, lick the top of this..


Please do not try # 6. New hairstyles are always refreshing, but if you are wearing railroad tracks across your teeth, you might have one big filling after it痴 over.

HOW CAN CAPACITORS IMPROVE SOUND QUALITY?

They can't. Sound quality is not dependant upon the presence of large bulky 1 Farad capacitors. How many 1 Farad Capacitors do you think the Boston Pops, Aerosmith, or Snoop dog use in the recording studio?

IN A NUTSHELL.......

When Richard, our fearless inventor, became World renown for winning every competition under the sun, people began copying what he did. Soon, every 'serious' competitor had a 'stiffening' capacitor--not to be confused with the 'loosening' capacitor.

WHY?

In the late 80s, people began sticking out their tongue when dunking the basketball because Michael Jordan did. Did sticking out your tongue improve your dunking ability? Same here with adding a capacitor to your electrical system.

STILL A GLUTTON FOR MORE PUNISHMENT?

Here's the Original Cap Debate.

http://www.carsound.com/ubb/Archives...-1-000307.html

Phoenix Gold's marketing guru had just posted information on how their Powercore (basically the Alumapro CAP15 in a Phoenix shell) had both stabilized their voltage and improved the sound quality. Richard called him on it (all in another post) and the marketing geek was unable to quantify any of the conditions that resulted in the voltage being HELD at 14.2V and the 'improved' sound quality.

Please do not read every stinking post as valid. There are a lot of people that have had the efficacy of capacitors inbred to their minds, and were not (and still not) convinced in the futility of a 1 Farad storage device.

In a final note, Richard relayed a quote regarding battcaps ( www.battcap.net ) as, "..The audio industry is the only place i know of where you can publish specs that show your product is useless and still be able to sell them------and whats worse is that technically ignorant people will argue against the math!!!!!!!..............RC.." when referring to the product. This also relates to most digital readout capacitors, and I wish my Archie Bunker skills could have said it better myself.

TRUST me all you need is an Optima I have been  installing audio since 85' ::) I'm the audio modorator over at ASEC and was here before the board crashed ... The stock battery can't compete with the audio needs ...I've installed at least ten 1000 watt systems in venges with JUST an Optima with no headlight dimming ;) So do what you want spend $500 on an alternator  ::)

I stand partially corrected.  ;D
Caps do have a purpose

That is great and I learned something today.  I didn't know that a battery had that farad capacity.  I change my vote to get a battery.  Orbital or Optima, like I said before exact same technology and the Orbital is less expensive.  The "big 3" is still a good idea too. 

Caps DO have a use ....We installed 2 caps in a comp vehicle over the winter .... They are 50,000 farad  :o  Russian military surplus used to start and run tanks.... About the size of a 5 gallon bucket  ;D

ok i am a noob compared to the guys installing since 81 and 85 but i will tell you i had the same problem with mine and i was only pulling 700 watts BUT.... i have 2 10's DVC and all i did was to eliminate the dimming is to hook the wiring configuration up so i was having less resistance......i.e. parallel was pulling 4  or 6 ohms  and i switched to series and started pulling 2 ohms. so in all reality i doubled my power and eliminated a problem.....that might work for you i dont know but my subs slam harder now then they did when i was running them before. maybe that helps and btw i always mic up series and parallel wiring so excuse me if i got them backwards