ASOG Forums

3.5 swap.. ... ... NOT MINE THO... I WISH! ::)

its in a stratus tho..

dunno if anyone has seen this before..

http://www.geocities.com/rbsounddesigns/motorswap.html

that is in a '95 Sebring not a stratus.

oh even better.. I didnt notice.. I just quickly browse over it.

are you sure its a 95?

or this guy just wrong?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Basice stock motor specs between the 2
 
2.5 (6g73)                      3.5 (6g74)
163HP@5500rpm         215HP@5000rpm
170ft/lbs@4400rpm          230ft/lbs@4000rpm 
Redline    6500rpm                       

95's have 155hp

that was Robert car and his geocities pages
his car was a training bed for several things youngster are taking for granted

we miss guys like him nowaday

guys with balls the size of grapefruits  :o

guys who do something first and ask questions later

Alain

wow he wasnt kidding when he said thats a crap load of work... It almost seems like its not work it

I wouldnt do it only b/c it would net 15 more hp more than the 3.0, I could do some additional upgrades that i believe couldnt fit in with the 3.5 to get just as much power. not bashing his work, its all out of preference, but...that much headache for 15 hp wouldnt be worth it imo.

If you are going to do a swap, then go big... 3.5 ;D

furthermore, the 3.5 has 4 bolt mains...just like the 67g2TT, which are found in the 3000GT VR4. so once the weak pistons and rods are address the bottom end should be pretty close to bomb proof.

Also the 3.8 crank (6g75)swaps right into the (6g74)

Got you thinking yet? ???

CMC

If I'm doing all that cutting and fabricating, I might as well drop in an LS7, or the 3.0w/ 5 spd @least...and the 3.0 w/ 5 spd, would most likely eat the auto 3.5

there isnt as much fabricating as you think... more like grinding with a little bit of welding (if you want to do things the "right way"). ;D




CMC

i figure u could just grind as you go along, but someone once grinded off the tensioner..soo lol..something may be there that u dont realize u need.

when am done with it, i will post all my pictures(wish there was a project log).... as it sits, the engine is in and the PS/AC/Alt are on and work... on the rbsoundesigns site, robert didn't put the AC back on... I figured a way to do it:), i have a few minor issues:

1. can't get pass. side half shaft out to mill trans/engine bracket down
2. need 3000gt na injectors, avenger lower time belt cover(mine's broke)
3. Redesign the DP... poor design any how



CMC

good luck with that LS7 if you have 10k to throw at an engine lend me some


this is one nice swap, a lot of freakin work but nice job.

I"ll just extend the front end, if all else fails i do a rwd i6.. i like the idea of completely gutting the entire thing, leaving a shell, then putting it in there...that's one of my goals....course it'll take me about a year :P at the end of this semester i start making big money....cant wait!

hmmm ???

how did this thread turn into a sarcastic bash on people who do motor swaps?

the 6g74 goes in easier then you think, just man up and do it. you dont learn anything by sitting on the sideline and being a critic....for example: talking about "jonnie" who did it this, and man he said it was so difficult. So i cant do it!!! Yes, i have a few problems and will probably have more problems, but am adapting to make things work by asking questions and problem solving.

depending where you grind, it would have taken about 15mins and 2 wheels to grind all the way through the tensioner bracket...thats crazy and mindless

BTW... the 6g74 is a 2001, has 40K on it, and costed me $425.00---see if you can locate a 6g72 or even a 6g73 for that price with that many miles


CMC

umm...i was not "bashing" anyone, I'm not KIDDING about doing an I6, where did u get that info???? all im saying is, if i WONT have any room in my car to work on anything i WONT put a 3.5 in, NOT for 15 hp, thats like getting a runing start to jump over a  5 inch brick in the road...by the way, this is all IMO.

okay fair enough




CMC

Just so you know...when doing the 3.0L swap you can get a VR4 bottom end with the 4 bolt main ;) the SOHC 3.0L heads bolt right on the block  ;)

not bein a smartass..just questioning....how much would the overall improvement be of having the vr4 bottom end?

it's stronger.  no performance gain.

You guys will not have any reason to worry about getting a VR4 bottom end.

Ours with forged pistons, STOCK rods, STOCK crank will hold over 450 hp

well that's good to know...but by the time we approach that amt of power, i'm sure everything else needs to be built up

none of you will make it that high...so don't worry about it ;)

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg317/custom-metal-creations/Project%20Re-venger/100_1410.jpg) ;)...i dont know I think i might be getting closer.





CMC

Yes, it's a 3.5... look at the oil pan. Did you notice, i made the trans/engine braces work ;D


(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg317/custom-metal-creations/Project%20Re-venger/100_1405.jpg)



CMC

that fuel rail look isn't going to work.   :-\

yeah, injectors too small and the fuel line needs to bent up to clear PS pump :'(... or this with some 90s with a line inbetween
and other ideas (besides buy a rail form Disturbingmotors)?

(http://www.3sx.com/store/catalog/fuel-rail-adapters-individual-blue-06-500l.jpg)


CMC

get an end of a '95-96 fuel rail ;)

here is the back side engine/trans. bracket...seal was replaced this weekend (thanks to DarkTengu)

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg317/custom-metal-creations/Project%20Re-venger/100_1416.jpg)




CMC

it's not going to do any good to have a new seal if the axle isn't coming straight out of the transmission.   ???

really ??? I looked at the 98' so many times to see if i could fab something up, but it is one solid piece - horrible design btw.

I will sniff around at some of the local junk yards ;D


CMC

yeah, already milled down and bolted-up... all is left is DP/ fuel issues


CMC

try and put a few washers in between the block and bracket where the TOP bolt goes threw.

This should tip the bracket down on the bottom side and pull the axle in closer to the engine.

Least in the picture, thats what it looks like it needs.

Here is the AC bracket

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg317/custom-metal-creations/Project%20Re-venger/100_1413.jpg)

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg317/custom-metal-creations/Project%20Re-venger/100_1411.jpg)



CMC

that picture was before the halfshaft was removed to replaced the seal and mill down bracket... Darktengu had to come over and give me a hand to do it....



CMC

ah...just make sure that the axle is coming out straight and that the axle is hitting all the way around the seal and not just one side of it.

here is the PS bracket extended to bolt to BOTH heads:

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg317/custom-metal-creations/Project%20Re-venger/100_1394.jpg)



CMC

yeah, if i have any issues, the seal will tell me by leaking. I make a crayon rubbing of the mount on the engine an measured the difference in height between the two mounting bosses and milled it down... the guide pins fit perfectly.

IMO: i wont tell anyone to use washers, because the guide pins dont line-up


CMC

alt. bracket..done the right way:

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg317/custom-metal-creations/Project%20Re-venger/100_1393.jpg)

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg317/custom-metal-creations/Project%20Re-venger/100_1392.jpg)


CMC

no more pictures 8)...i shared too much




CMC

Okay, three more:


(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg317/custom-metal-creations/Project%20Re-venger/100_1366.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg317/custom-metal-creations/Project%20Re-venger/100_1367.jpg)


6g74 front head...ah isn't she clean...sharpie and all

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg317/custom-metal-creations/Project%20Re-venger/100_1397.jpg)



CMC

Someone I know is doing a 3.5L 6G74 & AWD tranny swap from an Aussie Magna.   

tell me more :)



CMC

It looks better in person anyway.  Propane for the win!

I just wanted everyone to know that Darktengu is "Da man". When others would have stayed inside in their nice warm homes; he came over when it was -13 with a wind chill of roughly -35 :o. I had a propane heater on full blast about three feet away from where we were working and it was still roughly 20 degrees. Plus the concrete floor was like laying on a block of ice.



CMC

correction

someone you know spent already too much cash in buying parts from down under and letting other peoples dealing with his money in USA
his car will never run and that statement alone is based on my 8 years of seeing peoples working on those cars

Alain

I thought you QUIT coming to this site. Wasn't there a post where you quoted that "I'm outta here, delete my account". 
http://asog.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,30/topic,3057.msg34026#msg34026

...but you're right. I would never prepay $5K to a middle man. I wouldn't go so far as to say that his car will never run, you should never say "it will never happen". You shouldn't be in a world where "nothing is possible" & condemn others plans UNTIL they give up.

Easy big guy.  He's trying to stay calm, and "be nice"  It's his New Year's Resolution.

I think I'm perfectly justified though, when it comes to - he should NOT say "it will never happen".   :P 
The 3.5L swap has been done before, no questions there, the AWD tranny from a Magna is just a step further.  If he's got the money, time, & parts, then I think it CAN be done.   I'm sure at one time EVERYONE thought you could NEVER put a 6G72, AWD 4G63, or a RWD V8 into a Venge.    :P

 

have you seen Sicklife twin turbo avenger recently ?
have you seen JadedSilver porsche conversion avenger recently ?
have you seen ESR running high boost recently ?
have you seen MY OWN CAR with a 2.4 running recently ?
have you seen Glacius Ugly Duckling recently ?
have you seen Robert's car recently ?
have you seen ERT white sebring recently ?
have you seen Hoot custom turbo 2.5 car ?

reality beeing that big projects with an Avenger/Sebring = bottomless money pits

when you have the capacity to do it yourself you MAY have chances of seeing a final running product, Ryan95i4 turbo avenger is extremely close to be a monster and Ryan saved his car from prematured ending carreer by grabbing a few years ago a hell of an engine made for huge Hps for way way less under the street value

this project is unrealistic with a 800 hp goal and it's already turning a shitload of money into vaporware
 
and who am I to say that ?
I'm a 43 years old guy who is working around performance cars since the age of 13
you have no ideas how many projects I have seen in my life and in the end how many cars were left in a finished state

Alain

I never claimed that the Avenger/Sebring wasn't a bottomless money pit, - but hey, what car isn't? -  until you make the "perpetual motion machine" it's gonna break down eventually, NO MATTER what car you drive.

I never claimed that I back him up on the HP either, but he wants to build a AWD 6G74 Avenger, ... let him do it instead of saying he can't - as if you were gonna make sure that it doesn't happen.

I never claimed that his car or ANYBODY ELSES car was a project that was rediculous & would not require ... maintainance or rebuilding.  All cars do.  Maybe money is no object to this guy & he is determined to have it his way - not yours.

Yeah, and who are you to say that? Maybe he doesn't care what you say.  Have you seen it all? have you been everywhere? have you done everything? OK, go on thinking you are an automotive god that has absolute power & supremacy. 

 

if only I were a moderator....

I think you are confused redstar_gearhead
you are mixing myself with someone who cares about what you have to say

Alain

Well I could give a $hit less about what you have to say too.  ::) You can leave AGAIN for all I care.  Why don't you be a member that gives advice or support? rather than sit in the background & say "no, you can't do that". If it doesn't work, let people figure it out the hard way.

I personally you are a worthless member, b/c you never have anything good to say & you're not at all motivational. I'm not agruing with you anymore, it's pointless.

 :o :-X

98Lxi

that is a pretty small trans cooler :o


cmc

Haha lol I need a bigger one... ::)

i have trans. cooler envy :-[


CMC

I heard this kid w/ a red sebring got his huge 8 pass tranny cooler stolen.....a few days from now. :-X

It's Paprika... ::) Lol...

smartass  :D

I found one  ;D:

(http://i15.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/d4/3a/88f5_2.JPG)


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-Hayden-1299-Trans-cooler-Allison-transmission_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33727QQihZ006QQitemZ160201012838QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-Hayden-1299-Trans-cooler-Allison-transmission_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33727QQihZ006QQitemZ160201012838QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)


CMC

Haha what'd you expect... ;D

Maybe I can mount that in my trunk... :o

...or MAYBE, ...you could strap it to your roof & make a big sail out of it.   :D

But that would create wind resistance... :(

Then you'll always have to travel in the direction the wind is blowing.

damn...i guess chris columbus did have some devoted followers......

if ur worried about that resistance, u should probably get some more v6 mods :D..scratch that, a new engine  :P.

i will again...be taking out parts off the sebring....Project Vengeance "the annihilation" begins ....

My car is almost completed ;D... watch out

maybe i will post some more pictures when its completed...




CMC

Ya post pics when u got it done.

I'll have to come for a ride!

ya, i'll give you a ring when the beast lives... we will go for a ride and see if we can blow the tranny up :D


the UDP pulley is giving me a headache... A/C belt is the 327 (autozone) and i think the PS/ALT will be the K050565... tried the K050545 was three fingers too small and the stock one was huge...so something in the middle should work.

the DP is going to be a beastly looking thing, but flow 1000% better than stock. Custom Heat shield, high temp black, and maybe exhaust wrap.






CMC

I always thought if you could fit three fingers, it was a good thing......  :o

Anyway, I used fishing line to gauge the size belt I needed.  I got the right sized belt with no problems.

NO exhaust wrap... Exhaust wrap ftl... It can seriously hurt your parts.. Just high temp. paint will work... Trust me. ;)

in most cases three fingers is a good thing :D

Yea DT's dirty.

DT actually stands for "Dirty Texan" :P.

!! ;Dstop whoring!!

i dont trust anyone with a fast sebring....so...wherefrom u get ur info??>??

Pot calling the kettle black!

(http://smiliesftw.com/x/gtfon.gif) (http://smiliesftw.com)

b-but..the kettle IS black... :-[. and potheads are much more accepted than kettleheads...

exhaust wrap absorbs water. holds that water on your pipes. creates rust. exhaust falls apart.

get it jet hot coated or something similar

thanks for the clarification insomniac :P. , but doesnt that water just evaporate with the heat? I'm sure this info was probably gained through testing, but u know how this whole logic thing works (not a sheep, sorry)

Its not always hot... when the cars off.. condensation.. .. well ... you can put togoether the possibility.

the testing is done by all the people that put exhaust wrap on daily drivers and find out the hard way

well...i dont wanna be a sheep lol. thanks for the info

Who said it first though? ;D

i jus doubled ya karma!

okay, no exhaust wrap...

the beast lives ;D...



CMC

Post some pics of it done CMC.

when am back in Menasha i will...


this is the engine that should have been in the avengers.

is kinda of fast now... wheels start to break free really easily

50 - 80 mph "passing" is fun ;D


CMC

Whats the setup your running right now.

Engine Performance:

K&N Intake
UDP
210 CC injectors
Trans Cooler
Custom DP
Exhaust manifolds gasket matched (rear exhaust manifold baffle has been punched out)
DTM fart can


CMC

Is it a 3.0 motor a 420a.

Ive been thinking about doing a 3.0 swap but i dont wanna go threw another trannsmission.

Personally I'd read the name of the entire thread to answer your question  ;)

Lol sorry. I had a brainfart. I thought the 3.5 wouldnt fit in our cars.

I swapped in the 6G74 (3.5) fits fine!  I have the 2.5 valve cover on. the only way you could tell is by looking at the oil pan.




CMC

That's what everyone told CMC too...........

screw pics.. let see vids!!!

and just to brag about beeing always right

6g71 2.0 v6 very rare and not the 2.0 that we know

6g73 2.5L your cars

6g72 3.0L the engine easy to swap

6g74 3.5L the engine harder to swap

6g75 3.8L with or without mivec head

Alain

well now i am just gunna stop posting!  >:(


dammit... delete!! since it's a total waste of a post.  :-\

Sh!t


Curious.. what did the 2.0 v6 come in?? Daytona?

its been done a few time already before cmc did it. whoever told him it wouldn't fit should research first

Robert did his 3.5L swap in 2001 I think. 

i will try to get video/pictures as soon as i work out the other demons, non swap related http://asog.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,30/topic,4244.0 (http://asog.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,30/topic,4244.0)

so if you can help...^^^^



CMC

CMC how hard was it to put in. Was there anything else needed besides the obivious. Like the motor and etc.

97avengerguy:

the majority of the infomation i got was from the 3g board and from roberts old site(see 1st page)...however not everything was spelled out and i did things alittle different (like keeping the : A/C...engine to trans braces, etc..)


look at pages 2 &3...

that was the most fab work i did...

if you have a angle grinder, finger grinder (cheap one from "Harbor Junk" will do), sawz-all, and a welder (a 115 MIG will do to tack things together, then bring it to someone to weld it up completely)

i would say the biggest issue was the Down Pipe... because it needs to be wider(from manifold to manifold) and taller.
secound biggest... the half-shaft engine bracket...it needs to be milled down to fit correctly (or if you are surgical with a angle grinder if a can be down that way).  on the 3g site... they refer to using the 6g74 bracket...i would have tried this, but i had no idea how to take the bracket off of the half shaft.


if i had to do it again, i think i could crank it out in about 3 days...okay maybe 4...

i would like to slap some pistions in from tearsome performance...i think they are $700, then throw a 150 (or more) shot at it (with supporting mods)


CMC

hmm. Im gunna keep that in mind. I was thinking about doing a swap this summer.

Ok given the ammount of work is it really worth the work to get the 3.5 in when the 3.0 sawp is easier? not ragging on it i think you did a kick ass job.

For the price he got the 3.5 it was completely worth it.  Plus the whole challenge thing.

3.5 was worth it...for me

1) i like to do things differently, and if i was going to replace an engine why not spend a extra time put in the biggest - am not saying bigger is better in all cases
2) engine was $425 with roughly 40k on it (couldnt find a 6g72 or 6g73 for that price with those miles)
3) when the 4g eclipse aftermarket gets moving there will be lots of parts :)... what am interested in is rods (6g74 and 6g75 share the same rods) the 6g75 crank will also swap in (larger displacement)...etc.. there are pistions for the 6g74 already - "tearsome"...thru RPW

CMC

read my signature

Alain

Ya i like a challenge to but seeing how im still learning i dont want to jump into something i cant finish. But ive been finding some 3.0 for about 400-700. Not to high on miles.

2) engine was $425 with roughly 40k on it [/quote]


WOW, thats a hell of a deal.
Yeah I dont doubt that a unique swap was good, just wondering if it was worth the hassle. I think its cool as hell, thats a nice ass size engine.

plus... this engine came with a cpshttp://asog.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,30/topic,4040.0 (http://asog.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,30/topic,4040.0) give me a little bit and i might have a 5 speed swapped in:)


CMC

Wow CMC sounds like you got a killer deal.

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg317/custom-metal-creations/Project%20Re-venger/avenger.jpg)

i have been driving her around when am home... engine works great. need to replace exhaust..got a large hole in it. front strut is blown  :'( so gotta replace that to.  shes trying to fight me...i tell her to just take the new engine, its good for you :P


CMC

Lol thats the way to do it CMC show her whos boss.