ASOG Forums

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_knight_turbo_electric_supercharger/index.html

But yea these guys had to use 3 starter motors to create that much boost.

(http://images.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_knight02_z.jpg)

(http://images.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_06z+nissan_altima+trunk_batteries.jpg)

(http://images.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_03z+nissan_altima+engine_bay.jpg)

(http://images.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_05z+nissan_altima+trunk_batteries.jpg)

(http://images.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_04z+nissan_altima+electric_supercharger.jpg)

(http://images.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_07z+nissan_altima+switches.jpg)

Not for me but it's impressive that someone actually made a ESC that's worth the time.  Well maybe......

thats old news and been around for years .... the other trouble is it overheats and can only be used for short bursts ...

yeah steve knight has been making these since the 70 's . i think it looks terraible, the engine bay all clutter up with all that charge pipe. imagine trying to work on that mess. and then the trunk that wiring looks like a invention for disaster. why not do the real deal and put a disco potato in there instead of wasting the time cluttering up you're for a electric supercharger that dosen't make much power to begin with.
Pugsley

srry thomas knight

lmao!

What's funny, is that even though you typed Steve, in my mind I said Thomas Knight!!
I'd still like to see someone spend the money on one of the ESC's that you see advertised on tv, not ebay. hell, if i had the extra money, i'd do it just to lay the demon to rest.

the ESC shouldnt be compared to a turbo, compare it to nitrous. the ESCs ussually push 1-4 boost, at most. which is nowhere near a turbo, but it equals about the same amount of o2 down the pipe as nitrous(cause thats all nitrous does [no2] during combustion it strips off the nitrogen and you have extra o2), and short term use is going to be about as long as nitrous, and as long as your alternator is good and/or you have a second battery wired in for it, you will get more life out of an ESC than a bottle of nitrous AND the ESC is ussally cheaper for the kit

so ESC= cheaper to start with, no refills(unless you run it too long and drain your battery), and about the same power. and it tends to be easier on your engine. and its much easier to bolt-on.

i was looking at them a while back, wanted to keep N/A but didnt want nitrous, and this naturally aspirated when its off, and better than nitrous. and its only like 100-200$ where a cheap nitrous system is like 500$ and getting the bottle filled is pretty expensive too.

Already been done by at least three magazines... bought the bilge blower and installed ...

you wouldn't happen to know where i could read said articles [at least one of them] would you?

They were  posted here when it surfaced before...I read it in road and track/Car and driver and super street ...

That one shown was over $2000 years ago the $100/$200 are scams and do not work    ::)

speaking from experience?  because i've heard of the 100-200$ working, one guy said it was about like getting a small shot of nitrous; another said it was barely noticeable but what do you expect from a direct bolt on, but it worked; and i've heard that it was a scam, so i don't know who to believe ya know? i figured if nothing else i would end up being the guinea pig and try it out, and tell all you how it went.  i mean i wasnt expecting much out of 200$ bolt on, so if it gets 2psi of boost i figure it worked.

Like I said before read up on it .. ::) The one pictured at the top is the ONLY one that works.... The Echargers in the $100/$200 range do not blow enough and are normally bige blowers from boats... They don't move enough air ...I've Removed the blower from my dads boats and tried it ...no difference infact it ran worse as the motor/impeller blocking the open intake... I've even seen guys rig up leaf blowers that move 10 times more air not get a signifigant boost...

what about this. ;)

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/ab544e3b-5dff-416d-9cfd-a1ad23ca9564.htm

DAAAAAAAAAAAAMN

ima go strap a leaf blower under my hood, jk. but thats basically all a turbocharger is, or a supercharger is, or an ESC, just shoving more air in, so why is everyone saying that the ESC is bogus? i mean i can go to home depot and get a leaf blower for less than 200$ easy, get a inverter and run it under my hood. so again i ask why are the cheap ESC's considered junk? cause the honda got 10hp and the sonoma got 15hp. im just asking whats the differnce between a leaf blower and a ESC? sure its going to drain your battery, but thats kind of a moot point considering the "only one that works" the guy has 3 batteries in the trunk.

the only thing i can think of is the extra draw from the alternator trying to charge the battery while it is being used, but i can set it up so that it doesn't charge while im using so thats not problem. just mount a battery in the trunk and control when the alternator charges it, get a charge gauge etc... and how can this NOT work.

i like the comment from the guy who said No2's not flammable....... riiiiiiiiight. lol

gas powered leaf blower ftw!... electric start!

haha.. the whole ESC concept is a joke IMO... feel sorry for the losers trying to make it work.

yes but alot of people don't think oxygen is flammable. tell that to the apollo 1 astronauts.

seriously.

Anson, let me give you a bit of background on Jeff AKA Bad Venge.  He's an electrical engineer, he knows his excrement.  He may come across short and might not give a long explanation but that's because, he knows most people won't read everything he writes, and even fewer will probably really get a good handle on what he write.

Bottom line, if you want to spend the time and money just to learn BV is right, the go ahead, but I have yet to see him make a firm stand against anything and be wrong.

he is right, sort of..at room temperature n2o is not flammable. it's only under the high temps and pressures present in the combustion chamber that the nitrous oxide breaks down to it's nitrogen and oxygen components. the oxygen will then definitely burn. :) the phase change from liquid to gas in the bottle and it's expansion as it exits the solenoids helps to cool the combustion charge somewhat. it's pretty cool in a nerd sorta way.

that being said i'm sure if someone sticks a torch in front a nitrous bottle it will probably burn. but at room temps it is nowhere near as volatile as gasoline.

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/Shiano/Worf.gif)

You know what i meant. lol.

Tell that to my buddy in columbus ...Got his Nitrous bottle filled(overfilled actually) he drove home parked car in garage ,over night burst disk blows leaks bottle contents out,finds pilot light and KABOOM blows entire garage and two cars three bikes ect ect apart
There were pictures all over the internet of the remnants

Pics or ban.

ah, its hard to pick out the true experts from the people that just think they are. so i tend to want a long winded explanation, to kind of back up the expertness(is that a word?) just sort of testing the waters as it were. i just get tired of people who don't know a exhaust manifold from a nitrous system telling me whats what, so i tend to be skeptical of short answers, confusing rightful confidence for a lack of knowledge. i mean i can pull out "it doesnt work" all day long and not know what im talking about. its harder to pull "it doesnt work because....".

sorry, Bad Venge, for doubting you. my only defense is "im new" and that isnt a good excuse. as you seem to be one of the resident experts i shall take your word as good as fact in the future.
 

The forum is pretty good for correcting false answers.. so you will most likely get what you want to know sooner or later.

my fingers are hurting me ...
the temptation is soo strong ...

but it's 2008 and I'm trying to be nice ...


Alain

Your one day in!! LOL I don't know if you'll make it the remaining 364.5 days.

Im talking about you Alain.. your one of the guys who keeps the forum informed correctly..

silly rabbit esc is for kids ;). here's one solid reason why you wont get any aid from the esc....the vacuum from your car's engine is  tad bit more powerful...so it wont really gain...there's no pressure increase. also, when you try hard to get something to work and stray away from what already does..u end up overdoing it and basically by the time u get any sort of gain, ur costs are already over what you would have by just getting the real thing...

"aint nothin like the real thing"
                                      - someone..not me.

nice cover  ;D

and good point too. just ask the blowup doll guys. i'm sure they can atest to it. lol

haha i have that trubo mag too, they explain it as there is one type and im to lazy to see which one they say it is but since it draws a lot off of the batteries and such they say you gotta use it like nitro especially if its hooked up to the car battery

Grrr. i want to read the article. lol

      The folks at Garret (expert turbo makers for those who dont know) experimented with a turbo/electric hybrid. At idle an electric motor spooled the turbo to reduce or eliminate turbo lag on accleration. But they found they had to use 36 or 48vdc to spool the turbo up. 12vdc just wouldnt cut it without to much draw.
      The reason why those electric "blowers" wont work is because there based on the volume of air moved, where turbo and superchargers work on pressure. If you want to make more power out of a motor, you need pressure to force that extra air into an engine. Just blowing air into an engine wont force enough air to make any power. The only time that an electric blower will work is at idle when the engines VE (Volumetric Efficiency) is low.
       And for the record, Nitrous oxide is NOT, repeat NOT flammable, neither is oxygen. They help or "excite" combustion. The more oxygen thats added to combustion, the hotter an faster it burns. Dont believe me? well i dont think a hospital would prescribe an extremely flammable gas to an old lady/man to help them breathe cuz they smoked for so long.

this one does work. It just cant be used in long runs or constantly it has no parasitic drag and is pretty efficient but it eats batteries up like a fat kid eats cake.

This is out of Turbo (the magazing doing the article on the superchargers as another means of boost to a turbo):
"And then there's the electic Eaton supercharger. Thomas Knight offiers its version of this. The ESC 400 supercharger powered by three electric motors that, toghether, produce roughly 18 hp; this is power that isn't taken from the crankshaft. An auxiliary battery pack with four small bateris provides the power. The biggest advantage here is that boost is completely independent of crank speed meaning you can get full boost whenever you want within .3 seconds of hitting the switch. If unregulated though, it's possible to hit more than 28 psi of boost in a 4 cylinder engine at low engine speeds." it goes on to say that as speed raises boost lowers but thats a given, they say the biggest drawback to this thing is its power consumption...a fat kid and his cake...they say the max amount of time this thing can be on is about 15 seconds on a 12 volt system if you dont want to eat the battery down to nothing (it can run longer but it will drain the whole battery) Also at least 20 mins of drive time is needed to get the battery back up after just 15 seconds.

So i would say it works pretty damn well and there isnt a problem creating boost.


NOS is flamable, in liquid state it isnt once it is in a gas state it is highly flamable. also those tanks DO NOT SMOKE NEAR THEM(amd run your ass off if someone is) they are full of 100% oxygen under pressure...the presence of a spark in that or to much heat will cause an explosion, oxygen by itslef isnt flamable but under pressure its another story.

lol...fat kids and cake....

technically Mo'Joe is right, but in the presence of the smallest flame the flame consumes it, in the presence of 100% oxygen or nitrous, expecially if its under pressure, the oxgen/nitrous will burn on its own. again apollo 1 astrounauts, 100% oxygen enviornment, add one electrical spark and the oxygen burned them alive.

but why are we talking about nitrous?

BYAAA!!

(http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_image/image/37218/full/BYAA_.jpg)

should i give u guys a chem lesson...ehh..naaa. carry on

Oxygen an nitrous are oxidizers, not a fuel. You hold a match to an oxygen tank, the match will burn like crazy cuz it has 100% pure oxygen. If nitrous was flammable it would completely defeat the purpose of squirting it into an engine. You squirt nitrous because the heat breaks the molecule apart giving you 2 parts oxygen to every one part nitrogen, the added increase in oxygen means you can add more fuel to make more power. If nitrous was flammable it would be like adding in extra fuel making the engine run rich. Which anyone familar with nitrous knows that if you dont know what ur doing it will lean out the engine making it run hott an inevitably destroying the engine becuase of the added oxygen.
I also didnt say electric superchargers dont work, i said the electric blowers you see for sale all over the place dont work. You also just proved why Garrett had to use a 36 or 48 volt system. 12volt just wasnt good enough.
I thought the Apollo 11 astronauts died because the door lock system failed and they couldnt get out, mixed in with the airtight space capsule and the 100% oxygen rich environment for a fire, pretty much turned into an oven.
All in all i gotta give credit to the guy who engineered that supercharger, but for the added weight, complexity, wiring an what not, i'd rather stick with the much more efficient turbocharging that gives me that added power all the time, doesnt require crank power, and doesnt need to be charged for 20minutes before i can use again. But thats just my opinion.

exactly mo ;)

yeah im with ya on that one the electric supercharger is a waste of time. i know you werent talkin about that SC though just thought i would point out that they have actually made one that worked(i never thought it would for the reasons you posted earlier). though turbos dont deliver power all the time at low engine speeds they actually pull a little due to back pressure issues, still turbo all the way i say power for nothing but a little low end lag.

it all depends on how big your turbo is :P

O2= oxegen gas
N= nitrogen

nitrogen is not flammable
o2 isn't flammable alone
oxygen is a catalyst not a fuel

Actually, nowadays with a properly reasearched, planned an designed turbo system, coupled with todays ceramic or inconel cast turbine wheels and ceramic ball bearings, turbo lag is almost a thing of the past. Superchargers work good at low engine speeds and for creating that low end torque, but they simply rob too much power from the crank and are too inefficient for me to want to use them. But to each his own. I really wish there were more boosted members in this forum, if everything works out right i know i'll be  ;D all i need to find is a cheap 3.0 block, junkyards around here only have complete engines.

i'm still holding my breath for Alain95i4's response.. i'm sure he can enlighten us all if he so chooses.

yeah turbos havent had noticeable lag for a little while now and if you get a duel turbo setup it is almost non-existant, which is why some funny car teams are using dual turbo setups(two MASSIVE turbos, rather than one MASSIVE supercharger). you lose a bit off the line, but the turbo makes up for it later :)

not that it would be that easy to fit dual turbos in our cars, though im sure it could be done. but oh my god the power....i think i just made a mess.

 ;) He said he's going to be nice this year, so he might no be able to respond.  ;)

yeah i know about nitrous i did some more research and all. so yes i was wrong. I had seen a line go up before at the drag strip and thought since i heard the driver call it nos it was the nitrous now though knowing what i do i would say it was probably methanol injection or something like that.

Turbos have lag even if it is hard to notice it on the drivers side the larger the turbo is the more the lag, if it is a great set up and it is properly tuned and planned the lag is very hard to notice but its there, its inevitable due to the way a turbo works.

The new BMW 335i has a twin turbo set up with a small turbo to make lag very hard to feel and a larger one for when the engine picks up speed. where as the new STI and EVOs dont make a real push till they get up in the RPMs due to the one turbo(especially in the STI its turbo doesnt spool to make power until like 4k!), lag is harder to feel now and engine management as well as engines are now designed to help make it feel less.

meh.

oxygen catalyses the combustion creating a larger boom. nitrogen cools what's left causing no overheatage

you just massacred the english language :D

damn, you guys have got to be kidding me, that someone in this club actually believes that this bilge pumps work. Its amazing some of you haven't chopped you're fingers off with a spoon

read the mag and find out for yourself the electric supercharger does work(well this one does at least)

Don't take our discussion on this seriously.. 99% of us still think the ESC is a joke.

99.9%

i still think fords are a joke, but they still work

you are up to page 4 now
should be right about time that this thread get whored and talk about chicken, McDonalds quarter pounder with cheeze, gravity, communism, isoceles triangle or whatever ...


it is a huge piece of junk made by Thomas Knight
Thomas Knight = no thread worth going more than 1 page long

Alain

so i had mcdonalds the other day...i thought i was going to puke.

yeah i had some french fires the other day that tasted like they were fried in toliet water :o

u know what toilet water tastes liek?? :D

mmmm.... chicken

(http://www.bristollearningdifficulties.nhs.uk/health_resources/healthy_Eating/Food_drink_meal_photos/meat_fish_eggs_and_beans/images/cooked%20chicken%20drumstick.jpg)

Fingy licky good.

officialy whored!!! yay!  ;D

whores! ;D and beer!

sorry. i had to. Alain called for chicken and so i hate to dissapoint.

lol, i almost fell out of my chair laughing, priceless...